|
Post by Cluck N Waddle on Nov 27, 2008 8:26:50 GMT 8
Unlike fluffy, I do help ones that havent pipped (naughty naughty I know ). I put the egg to my ear and if I can hear the chick trying to pip or cheeping then I'll help it. This is if theyre late btw. Anyways, usually theres a crack in the shell where they're trying to break through, I just break a tiny piece of shell off where the crack is which usually exposes the end of their beak. Then quite often theyre alright from there. I have also completed broken the shell open and hatched a chick that was very late and making no progress. It survived and was born healthy, not deformed or sickly. But I wouldnt generally recommend doing that because really it is natures way of culling the weak. But each to their own
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 27, 2008 8:51:51 GMT 8
Ok, well the one making the most noise broke through the membrane last night and hasnt broken through the shell yet. So would it be alright to help him? Cheers, Wendy.
|
|
|
Post by fluffychook on Nov 27, 2008 11:15:29 GMT 8
If it was me I would wait until late this afternoon before trying anything. It is breathing ok if it has broken the membrane.
|
|
|
Post by Cluck N Waddle on Nov 27, 2008 11:38:04 GMT 8
Yes, as fluffy said, try to leave it for a bit longer before you intervene.
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 27, 2008 14:16:15 GMT 8
Okay, will do, still nothing happening. Might have a go at something later on? Maybe I wont either. Too scared in case something goes wrong. I'll let you know.
|
|
|
Post by fluffychook on Nov 27, 2008 14:25:12 GMT 8
Before you try anything I would candle it and also listen to hear if it is chipping away. It may have just gone to sleep for a long time
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 27, 2008 15:25:09 GMT 8
Hi Fluffy, yes, the egg in question is still moving and chipping and peeping. What happens if I help it and the membrane is still bloody? I remember reading about it on BYP where someone helped a chicken and found the membrane was still bloody. This is my worst fear, it bleeding out. This would mean that the baby wasnt quite ready to hatch yet? because as the yolk is taken into the body it cuts off the blood supply to the membrane. Is that right? Sorry bout all the q's its just that if I do end up helping it out and I come across something like this its better to know what to do in advance. If I didnt have children waiting and watching I would probably let nature run its course but they expect me to do something!! Thanks, Wendy
|
|
|
Post by fluffychook on Nov 27, 2008 15:49:04 GMT 8
With my granddaughter we told her she had to wait otherwise you could hurt the baby and they don't want that. It would be more distressing for them to see it bleed to death. As you could imagine, not a pretty sight. Let the children hear it chipping away and educate them that the baby is working hard and it is very tiring so it takes a long time. As the baby turns in the egg chipping away at the shell a message is sent to cut off the blood supply to the membrane. If this has not happened and you break a blood vessel it can be disasterous. I found the following on the web and thought it might help you
For those who have an incubated hatch and are wondering when and how to help your chicks that are not making progress, you may be able to use this info.
Do NOT be afraid to help the chick out! If you don't hear as much peeping, or see as much beak movement and it has been hours-it's probably time to help. More than likely it has nothing to do with a "weak" chick, but has everything to do with a chick whose membrane has dried out, or is too large for its shell but otherwise perfectly healthy and normal.
A good indicator of when to help (besides the peeping and moving lessening) is if you see that the pipped area has a very very white membrane showing through at the edges. Most intervention is required because of humidity issues.
When the chick pips its beak externally the drying process of the membrane really kicks in. And drying makes it nearly impossible for the chick to move around to "zip" the rest of the shell.
Here's what you need:
Have WARM water handy Really Really WET WARM washcloth DULL tweezers-not sharp and pointy An eyedropper, or q-tips, or medicine dropper Clean hands Good lighting
Here's what you do:
Remove your egg from bator keeping in mind to turn off any air cconditioning and fans. You want your room as warm as you can stand. (Do not worry about the chick cooling off too much if the room is fairly warm. I have had mine out of the bator for up to 1/2 hour working on the shell and membrane-and the chicks are alive and healthy today). And do NOT be afraid to open and close the incubator-just keep adding wet cloths to the bator to keep humidity up.
Using your dull tipped tweezers, carefully start at the pip already created and lift ONLY the shell (like a boiled egg-but try hard to NOT include any membrane in your peeling of the shell) and to work around the shell. The best process is to take a bit in the tweezers and PINCH the shell and it will break in very small pieces gradually creating a neat little "zip". The key is to pinch small areas at a time and not remove huge sections. Your goal is to imitate what the chick would do under normal circumstances.
Zip the shell around the end where the chick started pipping-it should be at the large end of the egg, but sometimes they will pip at the small pointy end or even in the middle.
As you help zip the shell carefully take your warm water dropper etc. and "bathe" the membrane occassionally to start softening it up. Be very very carefull not to drop water or soak the area of the beak. You do not want to drop water in the nostrils and drown the chick.
If for any reason you see blood from the membrane-STOP. Put the egg back in the bator, and wrap the very wet, warm washcloth around the exposed zip you have created. Be careful to not completely cover the beak, but cover as much of the exposed membrane as you can to soften it up. Lay the pipped BEAK area on its side or facing up-not facing down-keep in mind the chick is breathing AIR at this point and will need to have an open uncovered access to breathe.
Leave the baby in the bator for an hour or two longer. Then try repeating the process untill you have zipped entirely around the egg. The MOST important object is to get the membrane very soft like it should have been for the chick to make its way out by softening it in the warm washcloth.
In VERY difficult cases, over a period of hours, you can, in steps, do this process and remove almost ALL of the shell and soak the membrane in the wet washcloth in the incubator. You also can (using your judgement) decide to help remove the membrane itself, but do not do that too early in the shell removing process (you can email me for more directions on the membrane).
All in all, you need to be very confident to intervene like this. If you are too scared or iffy about it, you may want to just wait it out. But honestly, if you wait and the chick gets quieter and stiller, chances are you will loose it without doing some intervention.
So you know it really does work, I have hatched out MANY like this myself. Once they make the pip and can't zip, the membrane rapidly dehydrates. Also, some chicks are just WAY to big for their shells and cannot physically move around to do the zipping and then they die in one spot having been unable to rotate. I found that several difficult chciks are actually the largest ones-the smaller "runt" chicks have literally kicked their way out like they were kickboxing.
I "gave birth" to, or hatched 2 chicks out COMPLETELY in my hand by using this method above AND removing the membrane (email or ask for those membrane directions). And I have also helped way more zip using the above method. They are alive and thriving as I speak-so it can be done! I am not a person who is willing to sit and listen to my bator get quieter and quieter as the chicks die in their shells. But, as I stated, you must choose what you feel is best for your situation, and be sure and ask if you are not sure when to intervene-there are many here on the BYC that have a wealth of info.
|
|
|
Post by fluffychook on Nov 27, 2008 15:51:04 GMT 8
One last thing, do not take the last of the shell of that is attached to the navel, the chick must do this itself
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 27, 2008 16:02:27 GMT 8
Thanks fluffychook, thats fantastic to know. i will make sure Im organisedin case it comes to that. Cheers, Wendy
|
|
|
Post by Cluck N Waddle on Nov 28, 2008 6:23:44 GMT 8
How did you go wendy? Have you had anything hatch?
|
|
|
Post by fluffychook on Nov 28, 2008 7:31:44 GMT 8
She is probably busy watching, helping, sleeping, taking kids to school.....Wendy where are you? I am on a need to know basis here and I have to go out soon.....lol Hope everything is going well. Would really love an update
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 28, 2008 7:38:22 GMT 8
Hi guys!! Im here and have been doing exactly that!! watching, helping, sleeping and getting the kids organised! Well I had to help teh little guy a bit last night and he got the top part of the shell of early hours of this morning. He is still attached to the bottom half it seems where the umilical cord is. I can also just see a bit of yolk sac ,so Im guessing I shouldnt have helped him after all! Anyway I will leave him in and see how he goes. Hes resting and picking at the membrane etc. ANd peeping,hes so cute!! No more "helping unless you guys think i should!!. Other eggs, well we have 1 or 2 peeping and wiggling so I guess it will be another sleepless night!! I was up till about 3am this morning. Got to watch Division 4 though!! Well thats it for now any advice on the little fella appreciated!!
|
|
|
Post by Cluck N Waddle on Nov 28, 2008 10:05:49 GMT 8
Glad to hear you've had a lil one hatch. I wouldnt stress to much about the bit of yolk sac, if he seems happy and he's peeping away then he'll probably be fine. Theyre very resilient Do keep up updated on how the others are progressing though
|
|
|
Post by Duck Diva on Nov 28, 2008 10:13:22 GMT 8
Im just wondering how long I leave him to try and loosen the rest of the shell? Should I help him or leave him to it? hes still very alert apart from when hes having a rest. Also, should I try and give him a drink or something? Cheers, Wendy.
|
|